PShops and Advertisement in Hanyang City Square Good or Bad? <-Important VOTE!

Number of posts : 2 Registration date : 2008-05-07

Several months ago, I noticed pshops offering very very low prices in Hanyang and mentioned it to our then WT. He told me that he could do nothing about it. I gave it some thought and decided that perhaps I could do something about it. I could set up my own pshops offering what I consider fair prices - typically 60-90% of listed market price (notice I say typically, this isn't a hard rule. I pay less for items I use less and more for items I need more. Most merchants do). Shortly thereafter, the other pshopper raised his prices to compete with me but soon tired of it and eventually removed the pshops. Very rarely do I now see pshops offering 1000 marbles for straw and charcoal and such.

I continue to maintain 2 pshops in Hanyang: Collide and Syrenn, and I buy things that I need there. Recently, several people have come to put up signs saying that I am ripping off new players, that I pay prices that are unfair. Remarkably, one of these people is the same person who told me that nothing could be done about the earlier pshops. Personally, it feels like harrassment. I do not see this person (or others) protesting other pshops that pay much lower percentage to market prices than I do, and certainly, they never put up like signs for the earlier pshops in Hanyang that offered prices so much lower than what I pay. They seem to be targeting me, and this appears to be an ongoing campaign of harrassment.

Perhaps that is not the case. Perhaps there is a sincere desire to help new players or to watch out for them. In fact, this was a large reason that I opened my Pshops in Hanyang in the first place. And new players now get far many more marbles from me for their items than they previously did. But if anyone thinks that I pay prices that are too low, I invite them to do the same: open your own pshop and pay higher prices. Please don't simply target me and excuse this on the fact that I operate pshops in Hanyang. Truly, is the first thing we want new players to see is a sign saying, beware of ripoff pshops? or beware of players that harrass other players?

It's easy to let personal issues become involved, but the bottom line is this is a game, and pshops are a legitimate part of the game. In fact, they are one of the best ways available to new players to quickly earn money for unwanted items. I'm not talking about 50 pieces of charcoal or 100 pieces of straw accumulated from hunting. I mean the random items given in Jack Quests and from NPCs and so forth. In fact, when I hunt on reco alts, I often use pshops for just that purpose. Sure, if I have 60 clay slate stones, I'll take the time to go list them on the market. But if I get 1 from Jack for completing a tiny thicket quest, I'm not likely to take the time to go to the market to list it. Neither are most new players. And even if they were so inclined, once they have filled up the 4 available spaces, the option of listing on the market disappears. The option then is to drop the item or sell it to Giselle for a pittance. Pshops offer a good mid-range alternative. No, they don't pay as much as the market, but they offer the immediacy of cash now at higher prices than any NPC. And Pshops in Hanyang are convenient to players, because they must return there to complete so many NPC quests.

New players are not completely unsophisticated. It doesn't take long for one to see that different pshops offer different prices for the same items. And once they have a new unwanted item to sell, they begin looking for the best offer. This is a game of commerce, and interacting with Pshops is a valuable part of learning about commerce and about the game.

If you decide to ban Pshops from Hanyang, I will move mine. But I believe the benefits of Pshops in Hanyang far outweigh any negative aspects, except the specific harrassment of late. I fear that banning Pshops from Hanyang will only add legitimacy to this harrassment.

Again, if someone thinks I pay too low a price, I invite you to set up your own Pshop and to offer what you think is fair.

Cheers! -- Aerygon

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-05-04

Big DEAL.
Pshops can be anywhere in the game.
Hanyang is supposed to be a place of learning for the newer players.
Most of the people I mentor are so confused because Hanyang is abuzz
with all these pshops and ads, they get overwhelmed, leave and some
never come back.

Whats the big deal about?
It's only in HY, and the courtyard outside that they are discussing this for.
Not the whole game.
Give the newer players space to actually know what the heck they are trying
to do before pshops and advertisements distract them.

Oh, I forgot.
It might give the new players an idea about learning the ropes and therefore
getting an idea of what a scam might be...
IGN: Sharilyndria

P.S., when I park in HY, and have a banner over my head, I am urging new players to check the market value against Pshops before they use a Pshop. I am not bashing, accusing or doing anything negative toward anyone in particular, I just want to raise awareness in the new players that come to our world.

i dont believe any of this discussion was aimed at a particular individual Aerygon... its aimed at the ones that do try to scam people in and around hanyang and focuses on the presence of the pshops in general inside hanyang... so don't go off about people pointing fingers at you when they aren't...

I'll point a finger, why not...
Areygon already said people are pointing at him and he too just pointed himself out of the crowd.
I mean no disrespect here, I think it is good to debate with people who are not of the same view.

Aerygon wrote:: Several months ago, I noticed pshops offering very very low prices in Hanyang and mentioned it to our then WT. He told me that he could do nothing about it. I gave it some thought and decided that perhaps I could do something about it. I could set up my own pshops offering what I consider fair prices - typically 60-90% of listed market price (notice I say typically, this isn't a hard rule. I pay less for items I use less and more for items I need more. Most merchants do). Shortly thereafter, the other pshopper raised his prices to compete with me but soon tired of it and eventually removed the pshops. Very rarely do I now see pshops offering 1000 marbles for straw and charcoal and such.

Given, makes sense you want to obtain high profits.

Aerygon wrote:: I continue to maintain 2 pshops in Hanyang: Collide and Syrenn, and I buy things that I need there. Recently, several people have come to put up signs saying that I am ripping off new players, that I pay prices that are unfair. Remarkably, one of these people is the same person who told me that nothing could be done about the earlier pshops. Personally, it feels like harrassment. I do not see this person (or others) protesting other pshops that pay much lower percentage to market prices than I do, and certainly, they never put up like signs for the earlier pshops in Hanyang that offered prices so much lower than what I pay. They seem to be targeting me, and this appears to be an ongoing campaign of harrassment.

I think they are targeting you, I've only seen your two pshops in Hanyang for while now.

No pshops = no mentors trying to help new mentees with ads... Simple.

Aerygon wrote:: Perhaps that is not the case. Perhaps there is a sincere desire to help new players or to watch out for them. In fact, this was a large reason that I opened my Pshops in Hanyang in the first place. And new players now get far many more marbles from me for their items than they previously did. But if anyone thinks that I pay prices that are too low, I invite them to do the same: open your own pshop and pay higher prices. Please don't simply target me and excuse this on the fact that I operate pshops in Hanyang. Truly, is the first thing we want new players to see is a sign saying, beware of ripoff pshops? or beware of players that harrass other players?

I am confused here.
You want us to open more pshops in Hanyang?
We are discussing the action to remove them, not add more.

Aerygon wrote:: It's easy to let personal issues become involved, but the bottom line is this is a game, and pshops are a legitimate part of the game. In fact, they are one of the best ways available to new players to quickly earn money for unwanted items. I'm not talking about 50 pieces of charcoal or 100 pieces of straw accumulated from hunting. I mean the random items given in Jack Quests and from NPCs and so forth. In fact, when I hunt on reco alts, I often use pshops for just that purpose. Sure, if I have 60 clay slate stones, I'll take the time to go list them on the market. But if I get 1 from Jack for completing a tiny thicket quest, I'm not likely to take the time to go to the market to list it. Neither are most new players. And even if they were so inclined, once they have filled up the 4 available spaces, the option of listing on the market disappears. The option then is to drop the item or sell it to Giselle for a pittance. Pshops offer a good mid-range alternative. No, they don't pay as much as the market, but they offer the immediacy of cash now at higher prices than any NPC. And Pshops in Hanyang are convenient to players, because they must return there to complete so many NPC quests.

Yes pshops are the real bomb-shizle.
Again about them inside Hanyang, not if they are affective, helpful, etc.
It is hard to honestly say what a new player does because everyone starts off differently.
Giving them a clear view of Hanyang and the NPC before they decide to become rich and go pshop crazy I think is what is intended.

Aerygon wrote:: New players are not completely unsophisticated. It doesn't take long for one to see that different pshops offer different prices for the same items. And once they have a new unwanted item to sell, they begin looking for the best offer. This is a game of commerce, and interacting with Pshops is a valuable part of learning about commerce and about the game.

I hate to get all psychological on you, but you are more stating when you, Aerygon, started you were not completely unsophisticated. Your describing your entry to Goonzu. I say this because there is no way you can know that every player which will join is going to be savvy in the game pre-hand. To say that everyone will learn fast is not on the money, there are a good number of players which do not understand the workings and have played for a long time now. This does not make them ignorant, or lower than someone who does understand. We are all on different paths.

Aerygon wrote:: If you decide to ban Pshops from Hanyang, I will move mine. But I believe the benefits of Pshops in Hanyang far outweigh any negative aspects, except the specific harrassment of late. I fear that banning Pshops from Hanyang will only add legitimacy to this harrassment.

They are pointing at the pshop and attempting to tell the new players there is a better way. And they are right sadly. I don't think you are that thin skinned that their adds are offensive to you as in a harassment.

I think it is interested that you want the ads removed due to harassment but your pshop is legitimate.
Possibly the ad spammers feel the same way in turn, and is also the reason they post the ads?

Aerygon wrote:: Again, if someone thinks I pay too low a price, I invite you to set up your own Pshop and to offer what you think is fair.

I have a better invite... If you want to pull more maximum payment out of your pshops, open them in the areas where the mats are dropped, you will get ten times more transactions, in both buying and selling.

Quick question for you Areygon.
By reading all of your post I get two things from it.
1. You figure the new players can handle their own, if not... Oh well
2. You make a killing in mats buying/selling in Hanyang. Else you would not buy there.

Is that right?

Aerygon wrote:: Cheers! -- Aerygon

Cheers! -- Akilies

What do you suggest as a compromise if you do want pshops and a good majority do not?

Quote :: I continue to maintain 2 pshops in Hanyang: Collide and Syrenn, and I buy things that I need there. Recently, several people have come to put up signs saying that I am ripping off new players, that I pay prices that are unfair.

This is the exact reason we're having this discussion, Aerygon. This whole thing has cause turmoil and chaos. I don't care who's right or wrong. It isn't my job to take sides or be anyone's friend. It's my job to see when a situation disrupts the play of the entire server. This situation has disrupted the cornerstone of where new players start their journey in this game of ours. In fact, the very reason for this proposal, assuming you read and understood it, is their is no "fair" way to decide who is wrong or who is right. Just that what has been going on in Hanyang isn't good for the game. This doesn't start and end with your Pshops, nor the ads I see protesting your Pshops, it's an issue of fairness.

1. Their are players who disapprove of the Pshops' Price offerings in Hanyang.
2. The Pshops in Hanyang (not just yours) are causing said disapproval.
3. Do I remove the Protestors, assuming they are informing young players not pointing out particular Pshops, from Hanyang or do I remove the Pshops?

Truth is, ads, that don't break terms of servive rules, are just as much a part of the game as are Pshops and, quite frankly, I don't care who's right or wrong in this situation. The bottomline is, it's my job to seek what's best for all and what's best for the "good" of the game. I don't think the issues caused by the forementioned are what's best for Hanyang Square. Protesting ads, ads asking people to make them their reco, Pshops and/or clutter, in general, sets a bad first impression for new players. Whether anyone likes it or not, this is an issue that could have been solved by the people involved, but you all chose not to find common ground and I'm not gonna be biased in deciding who's right or wrong, simple as that! So it's all or nothing...

I'm still deciding what the best solution is, but rest assured, the people's voice speaks volumes! That includes yours, as well!

Wilton..

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-03-24

I would just like to add - Aerygon and myself do not sell any mats whatsoever, Everything we gather from hunting and what Aerygon buys is to bettter our PD's. In turn this will help the server as they will be able to buy better quality items that we produce from our pd work. Both of us are High Level PD's and strive to make excellent products.

I still feel that pshops help new players to sell the odd items they cannot carry or do not need. Even I use pshops to unload the odd item here or there I do not use such as onions for instance.

Thankfully Wilton did stop the ad spammers this week breaking the terms of service and using the pshops names "collide" and "syren" in their ads. Harrassment is never right nor fun and Im thankful Wilton put a stop to it. The other interesting thing I noticed is that there were indeed at least two other pshops there from two different towns offering even less than aerygons pshops, and I wont mention any names but the person harrassing aerygon didnt harrass the other two shops, only aerygons - then he even called his friends to join in on the bullying. So their motives are highly questionable.

I think what might be a good idea if your aim is to make pshops more fair is to ask them all to move to a town that has not yet been opened. One big Pshop market. Almasha has kinda got the reputation for Pshops now and people are always setting up shops there, and it draws alot of people to these pshops.

If pshops are asked to be moved from Hanyang and its surround another solution must be found because if it isnt, these same people that harrassed aerygon will just follow him outside and ad spam there too, I bet on it.

I agree on the pshop location of a pshop market.

I think when this post vote opened that was the first thing that came up when mixing ideas with guild members was some sort of located pshop where every one goes to. With areas and towns being accepted it seems in whole and the random slew coming out of Hanyang towards Pershire it is odd that everyone has not collaborated on a large area being taken over for just the same idea.

This is one of the only MMOs I've played which does not have a located area for personal shops. Market is fine and all but it is more like a in game eBay, p.shops being just thrown into the mix, and honestly up until recently there was large chunks missing out of what we could buy and sell with them (recent updates added freely traded materials)

I am confused of what you guys mean about harassment (harassment has one r, you guys keep writing two... Razz

) from the ads. If they were PM'ing you saying stop stop stop stop stop, then yes. Putting up an ad is a single action. Would seem more down slander of face, but again we would have not know they are your pshops unless you told us :S

the only thing about the located pshop town is that its just way easier for players to teleport to hanyang... its a small fee to telly there and not everyone has the daily, weekly or montly telly passes... and single telly's are getting well over 100k each... but i do agree that we should have an area set aside for pshops... it would be nice

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2008-03-23

Aerygon wrote:: Several months ago, I noticed pshops offering very very low prices in Hanyang and mentioned it to our then WT. He told me that he could do nothing about it. I gave it some thought and decided that perhaps I could do something about it. I could set up my own pshops offering what I consider fair prices - typically 60-90% of listed market price (notice I say typically, this isn't a hard rule. I pay less for items I use less and more for items I need more. Most merchants do). Shortly thereafter, the other pshopper raised his prices to compete with me but soon tired of it and eventually removed the pshops. Very rarely do I now see pshops offering 1000 marbles for straw and charcoal and such.

I continue to maintain 2 pshops in Hanyang: Collide and Syrenn, and I buy things that I need there. Recently, several people have come to put up signs saying that I am ripping off new players, that I pay prices that are unfair. Remarkably, one of these people is the same person who told me that nothing could be done about the earlier pshops. Personally, it feels like harrassment. I do not see this person (or others) protesting other pshops that pay much lower percentage to market prices than I do, and certainly, they never put up like signs for the earlier pshops in Hanyang that offered prices so much lower than what I pay. They seem to be targeting me, and this appears to be an ongoing campaign of harrassment.

Perhaps that is not the case. Perhaps there is a sincere desire to help new players or to watch out for them. In fact, this was a large reason that I opened my Pshops in Hanyang in the first place. And new players now get far many more marbles from me for their items than they previously did. But if anyone thinks that I pay prices that are too low, I invite them to do the same: open your own pshop and pay higher prices. Please don't simply target me and excuse this on the fact that I operate pshops in Hanyang. Truly, is the first thing we want new players to see is a sign saying, beware of ripoff pshops? or beware of players that harrass other players?

It's easy to let personal issues become involved, but the bottom line is this is a game, and pshops are a legitimate part of the game. In fact, they are one of the best ways available to new players to quickly earn money for unwanted items. I'm not talking about 50 pieces of charcoal or 100 pieces of straw accumulated from hunting. I mean the random items given in Jack Quests and from NPCs and so forth. In fact, when I hunt on reco alts, I often use pshops for just that purpose. Sure, if I have 60 clay slate stones, I'll take the time to go list them on the market. But if I get 1 from Jack for completing a tiny thicket quest, I'm not likely to take the time to go to the market to list it. Neither are most new players. And even if they were so inclined, once they have filled up the 4 available spaces, the option of listing on the market disappears. The option then is to drop the item or sell it to Giselle for a pittance. Pshops offer a good mid-range alternative. No, they don't pay as much as the market, but they offer the immediacy of cash now at higher prices than any NPC. And Pshops in Hanyang are convenient to players, because they must return there to complete so many NPC quests.

New players are not completely unsophisticated. It doesn't take long for one to see that different pshops offer different prices for the same items. And once they have a new unwanted item to sell, they begin looking for the best offer. This is a game of commerce, and interacting with Pshops is a valuable part of learning about commerce and about the game.

If you decide to ban Pshops from Hanyang, I will move mine. But I believe the benefits of Pshops in Hanyang far outweigh any negative aspects, except the specific harrassment of late. I fear that banning Pshops from Hanyang will only add legitimacy to this harrassment.

Again, if someone thinks I pay too low a price, I invite you to set up your own Pshop and to offer what you think is fair.

Cheers! -- Aerygon

Where to start... I'll start With this actual case, as Aerygon has pinpointed his own shop.

Ok, So i see you discuss this self imposed golden rule of "60 - 90"%, which is all well and good for yourself, and your profit margin's. But shows very little regard for the new users. Whats more this rule you don't even to stick too. Personally i find you buying mats at these low prices (and yes others do it too) but then boasting about how much your helping actually forced my hand. I'm against all Rip off shops i don't care who's they are. i AFK with advert in Hanyang as thats where new players go by defualt, and where rip off pshops get a clearer run (much more competition outside of HY)

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img160/9114/syrennjb4.jpg

This SS speaks for itself, you cliam your helping, well look at the prices. Your the economist right, you know the affect of buying mats at such a low rate will affect a geninue new player. It's puts them into immediate poverty. they can't afford to buy food, equips, and QUIT. Buying mats @ 60% Not helping anyone but yourself. Like i asked you before, How about you sell me some Heavy wind gun's at the prices of your pshops? fair's fair right?

Whats really happening is You made a choice to join the low price pshop's. I remember that convo me, you Tresor had In Hy general chat very well.. You two both complaining, saying new players are being ripped off. I agreed, you both continued talking about educating new players too. But now your doing the exact opposite. I was WT i had no power to do anything at all, the fact your implying i did a bad job and this is 1 big personal vendetta is quite saddening, i worked my "Watch yo mouth!" off during my term trying to HELP people weather it be TC's or low lvl's. i was quite self-less for 2 months took it very serious and did nothing but my job. If you feel the job i did was poor then thats your call, but i'd prefer to be judged by the mass'.

You talk about being "targetted" "Harrassed" Well thats Just funny to me. Did i call your pshops rip off shops yes. I did, and indeed they are your shameless about it, so doing some naming is fair game. I did not target you tho, i targetted any under priced rip off pshops in HY. (too bad advert's only allow me a certain amount of letters or i'd warn the "future" about all rip off pshops in HY). What do you expect also Aerygon, You pull stunts like this, and try to make it out like i'm the bad guy for warning people about your low prices. even tho you admitted yourself, your against it. When there was more than Just you shops ripping new players off in Hy, i changed my advert to deal with this. Then you go and pull another stunt:

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img178/5170/misleadingop8.jpg

Now this little stunt annoyed me no end, making it out like i'm in support of your rip off pshops, quite clever to put it nicely.

Now you and Tresor discussed kept talking about harassment which i find quite comical, so my advert is harassment.. Funny you'd feel that way, i remember a couple of month's ago Tresor's own little Xi'an protest stating the names of the shadowinc, and someone who i can't recall. Is that harassment too? Or is it one rule for her and another for everyone else? See the funny thing is, you cry foul about the practices you use/used yourself. So now we are in quite the quandry Aerygon. We either both harassed people (in your's and Tresor's book.. Yup she's actually in directly guilty of her own crime) or Your slandering me.. (it's probly the latter by the way) Which means it's actually you breaking these precious rules. Which is it to be?

Sorry to bore ya'll...

Rocafella Aka Purple

i really don't recall 18k or 15k being fair prices for satin and psilk...

Wow.

I have been selling Satin, P.Silk, Silver Ore, Jade and Silk (oh wait that is all the mats pshopped in that image) for double the price on the market.

Again I say, this looks that heavy money is being made from new players.

As for the market square for pshops I am meaning right of the actual Hanyang building image in the field. Where you tele in, walk right one screen and there is a large open area where the NPC (lost his name mentally at the moment). We could all just start setting up p.shops there as a COMMUNITY, wow what a concept of us all working together instead of against each other.

us all working together? that makes me smile...

that is a good idea for a location of a community wide pshop area... could act as a giant marketplace with lots of vendors... now if only everyone would agree to that...

Quote :: Now you and Tresor discussed kept talking about harassment which i find quite comical, so my advert is harassment.. Funny you'd feel that way, i remember a couple of month's ago Tresor's own little Xi'an protest stating the names of the shadowinc, and someone who i can't recall.

I understand that you are making a case vs. the things that were implied about you in another post, but please, stick to discussing the topice at hand. Past issues or events, whether or not Purple did his job as White Tiger or Aerygon and Tresor herass people are not the issue.

PLEASE Stay on topic, otherwise, nothing gets done here.

Thanks..
Wilton

BTW: If you guys left out the comments referring to one another and stuck to your ideals and points of view, people would listen more. You both have something to offer to this discussion, point and counterpoint.

i enjoy fullly how there is about... 22 votes right now and only like 7 active people talking ... maybe in total ...12 unique people that has posted there comment that followed their vote
anyways... what surprises me is that aerygon saw the wrong in under priced pshops and complained about it and inturn is doing it himself
when is it ever two wrong making a right?
whats also sad is ... that you try to justify it by bringing in how roca didnt do anything before...
notice how before prices 10k straws was acceptable then the inflation happened 10k just dont cut it anymore

Number of posts : 4 Registration date : 2008-03-23

I'm going to be totally honest here ...

Pshops :
They are a great way of selling and buying...its in mostly every game.
Great for the odd ones and two's of mats you have in inventory taking up
space. Also we all know that of course they are going to be way lower than
the market price..and funny enough the younger ones...and i mean around 12 or
younger know their prices better than us oldies. I always felt bad for them but
they arent stupid ..far from it..they know when getting ripped off.
Buying is one way of getting a bargain...often i search the pshop to find a bargain,
the same as real life...always on the look out..
This also is a good lesson for the young on spotting bargains in game as it also reflects to real life too.
The thing is ..you cant control the price of pshops...that is up to that person.

Hanyang pshops...

Being Hanyang is the first place to arrive when new...no pshop or anything other
than GA's, Judges should be allowed in this area....it does look tacky.
It looks even tackier when there's signs saying...dont go there ..dont do this..dont do that....theres more of these signs then pshops signs ..and they are the annoying ones.
What is needed is GA's standing around for the new ppl to ask how to play and questions relevant to the game...both there and in Anka.
There isnt any need for pshops to be inside of Hanyang at all...
Hanyang is so cluttered as it...it can be confusing.

Pshop Market Place:

Pshop market place i thought of ages ago ...simular to like a farm.
So its fenced off...and ppl cant egg you. Same should be for the farmers...and miners. So its a no egg..no DA...can attack. Because while leaving a farmer etc you always come back wondering if your dead or not.
There's a huge area where we gather for DA to the right of Hanyang. Why dont they fence of some of that land ..its still in the same area close to Hanyang. It would also be a great place of meeting ppl too...the big hangout!

Thats my opinon....

Cheers

P.S. I luv you...

Whoops wrong letter.....

Purple..spg...wilton..aery and tresor....will this bickering ever stop. You guys just wont give up.
Well its starting to get pretty boring...its the same poop over and over and over and over....

waterbaby wrote:: Purple..spg...wilton..aery and tresor....will this bickering ever stop. You guys just wont give up.

First off, Let me say thank you for your honest opinions, I enjoyed your post, was like listening to the old waterbaby I used to know being honest and caring.

Second, though, where did I bicker, or for that matter, Tresor bicker? This is like the first post we haven't bickered at one another... Did you read the replies or are you assuming that if a post has Wilton and Tresor's name in it, they must be arguing?

I asked for this to be discussed productively, even corrected those who I thought went off topic. Question

Please explain...

Cheers

Wilton..

Number of posts : 2 Registration date : 2008-05-07

I did not name names in my first post intentionally. I'd rather discuss the merits of the topic at hand than get into personal differences. But the reason that I bring up the harassment is simple: the specific names of my pshops were listed in the ads, which called them "rip-offs" (I have a screenshot to prove it, along with another threatening comment from Purple about seiging me to 'put me in my place'). This is specific targeting, and the reason that it's salient to the current topic is that I have seen no other shops specifically named; not now and not at any time previous.

I think that the reason that Wilton raised this issue in the first place is because he saw the conflict and the potential for more conflict. Perhaps banning all pshops from Hanyang will at least keep that from (more) public view. But as I said before, I think it risks legitimizing the ongoing campaign of harassment, which includes not only specifically calling my Pshops "ripoffs" but coming to my town and camping to listen in and stir up trouble, to attacking me in the (other) forum, and to gathering others to aide in the campaign and to convince them to list their own negative ads (I feel quite confident that this is true, because not only have some of his cronies teleported in to surround my pshop with ads once Purple did, NONE of them ever raised any ads before he did, despite the fact that I've operated Pshops in Hanyang for several months. Nor have any of them raised similar ads around other Pshops).

Personally, I see Pshops as having the potential to fulfil a need. In fact, I see the growth of Pshops over the past several months as a demonstration that the market is failing to meet needs as well as it has in the past. But perhaps the best compromise is to take it out of Hanyang so that new players don't witness the haranguing and bullying of one player against another. As Water said (I'm paraphrasing) all the pshops and advertisments saying don't don't don't are simply ugly.

Nonetheless, I still vote against removing Pshops from Hanyang. I think any action that in any way supports one player attacking another player should be summarily rejected. If I single out another player, if I harrass or call them names, I should be jailed. And so should any other player that does it to anybody else. Removing Pshops from Hanyang might sweep the problem under the rug, but it doesn't resolve it.

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2008-03-23

Rocafella wrote:: Ok, So i see you discuss this self imposed golden rule of "60 - 90"%, which is all well and good for yourself, and your profit margin's. But shows very little regard for the new users. Whats more this rule you don't even to stick too. Personally i find you buying mats at these low prices (and yes others do it too) but then boasting about how much your helping actually forced my hand. I'm against all Rip off shops i don't care who's they are. i AFK with advert in Hanyang as thats where new players go by defualt, and where rip off pshops get a clearer run (much more competition outside of HY)

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img160/9114/syrennjb4.jpg

This SS speaks for itself, you cliam your helping, well look at the prices. Your the economist right, you know the affect of buying mats at such a low rate will affect a geninue new player. It's puts them into immediate poverty. they can't afford to buy food, equips, and QUIT. Buying mats @ 60% Not helping anyone but yourself. Like i asked you before, How about you sell me some Heavy wind gun's at the prices of your pshops? fair's fair right?

Whats really happening is You made a choice to join the low price pshop's. I remember that convo me, you Tresor had In Hy general chat very well.. You two both complaining, saying new players are being ripped off. I agreed, you both continued talking about educating new players too. But now your doing the exact opposite. I was WT i had no power to do anything at all, the fact your implying i did a bad job and this is 1 big personal vendetta is quite saddening, i worked my "Watch yo mouth!" off during my term trying to HELP people weather it be TC's or low lvl's. i was quite self-less for 2 months took it very serious and did nothing but my job. If you feel the job i did was poor then thats your call, but i'd prefer to be judged by the mass'.

You talk about being "targetted" "Harrassed" Well thats Just funny to me. Did i call your pshops rip off shops yes. I did, and indeed they are your shameless about it, so doing some naming is fair game. I did not target you tho, i targetted any under priced rip off pshops in HY. (too bad advert's only allow me a certain amount of letters or i'd warn the "future" about all rip off pshops in HY). What do you expect also Aerygon, You pull stunts like this, and try to make it out like i'm the bad guy for warning people about your low prices. even tho you admitted yourself, your against it. When there was more than Just you shops ripping new players off in Hy, i changed my advert to deal with this. Then you go and pull another stunt:

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img178/5170/misleadingop8.jpg

Now this little stunt annoyed me no end, making it out like i'm in support of your rip off pshops, quite clever to put it nicely.

Now you and Tresor discussed kept talking about harassment which i find quite comical, so my advert is harassment.. Funny you'd feel that way, i remember a couple of month's ago Tresor's own little Xi'an protest stating the names of the shadowinc, and someone who i can't recall. Is that harassment too? Or is it one rule for her and another for everyone else? See the funny thing is, you cry foul about the practices you use/used yourself. So now we are in quite the quandry Aerygon. We either both harassed people (in your's and Tresor's book.. Yup she's actually in directly guilty of her own crime) or Your slandering me.. (it's probly the latter by the way) Which means it's actually you breaking these precious rules. Which is it to be?

Sorry to bore ya'll...

Rocafella Aka Purple

1st off, I’d like to apologise to Wilton for taking this thread of topic for moment, but i feel the need to defend myself again…

Now I’m sure you all read my previous post which i have quoted, as a certain somebody seems to have ignored every word of what I had written, and repeated himself...

I'd like to reiterate my question, if it's ok for your "Wife" to march to Xi'an and place adverts with names in them, making demands. Why is it Not ok for me to do the same, I'm making no demands of you what's more, I’m simply raising awareness of your low prices. You call it harassment, well that’s fine I never spoke to your pshops, or followed them. I simple placed an advert pointing out your prices are akin to rip off prices.

As the screen shot I posted clearly shoes, you’re buying mats from the most vulnerable at such low prices, I mean take silver ore for instance, you’re buying at 3X% of the market rate… That’s "Fair?"

You also go on to say I threatened to siege you, when in fact, I asked you to declare siege on Kucha, i know full well The difference in town point's means we can't siege you. (Believe you and me if we could we would Wink

) Do feel free to post the SS where i say it btw.

Aerygon wrote:: As Water said (I'm paraphrasing) all the pshops and advertisements saying don't don't are simply ugly.

Indeed you’re saying "All" the shops are ugly However yours are parked there. Let me get this clear you’re against pshops and adverts in HY but its ok for yourself? mmmm i smell a double standard, seems like there is one rule for you and one for everyone else. After all without the "Rip off Pshops" (and i stand by my words) there would be NO adverts complaining about them!

Now you can keep posting saying you’re the victim in all this and Purple is an evil harasser, but we all know that's simple not true. And btw you can be "sure" as you want that i called people to help with adverts but it's just simply not true. I have never needed anyone to fight my battles for me, and i damn sure never will. Now you can keep slandering my name. (Yes its slander as he don't have a shred of evidence to support his wild claim) Or you can just admit your wrong and say sorry. Once again it's funny how you accuse me of breaking all these rules when it's you who's actually doing it.

Once again, sorry to Wilton for going off topic, i felt the need to defend myself, and it will be my last. Repeating myself is tedious...

P.S… Do please siege Kucha Tresor/Aerygon

Rocafella AKA Purple.

Aki, a sectioned area for pshops would be a great idea i'd welcome it with open arms.

i say... we have a certain area adapted for pshops like in maplestory (iknow iam retarded for even have played this game) but the they have a market place prehaps it may be able to be adapted by goonzu intsead of having all pshops loitering around HY
they can all be in one town (not ankaran) and if they get egged they dont lose anything maybe :s

as for roca requseting people tp join him... iam sure we are all well aware of the situation inside and out of HY, about pshops underpriced rates and it only takes one person to step forward before you get a whole crowd,

iam kinda of disappointed how some ad setters were afk and all and tres took cheap shots at her :s anyways iam sure we know who it was lol

ive known roca for a long while now and when he feels strongly for something he goes at it and he does it without help if he had to but if its something everyone is feeling then people to join the band wagon

its easy as that. it was kind of like a silent protest you could say... till words were being thrown in gen chat then everything got kinda messy lol
anyways roca didnt threaten anyone to seige, he said and i paraphrase "if you have something to defend, seige us(kucha)" that something would be about the pshop mind you... iam down for a seige, its high time this server seen something fun...

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-03-24

Whilst this is COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, Aerygon had NOTHING to do with Tampa, Bafo and myself entering XIAN, so quit bringing unrelated incidents into this, oh wait maybe it is related........BINGO.........Secondly tell us all here Purple why Bafo, Tampa and myself did enter XIAN, then babble on like you ALWAYS do about nothing substantial, OMG do I smell a REASON for your ADS Nowwwwwwwwwwwww OH MY I DO! You are freaking obsessed with me purple - Please stop it, for the sake of the game, leave me alone!

BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO BINGO!

B i n g o b i n g o B i n g o

aerygon may not have had anything to do with the xian incident it was more of along the lines of the silent protest you did in xian that resulted in an unnverved tc and you backing her into a corner, how say you this?
when asked to remove the ad's iam sure you were relunant were you not? ... althgouht not even involving you parsay in the incident.

the pshops in HY and surrounding area is and will always play a huge factor in the new people that plays experience i highly doubt they would spend five hours to update a game from the sites download and to get ripped of their hard work in the first 10 minutes of playing

This post has become over done like a chicken left in the oven for a few days.

The vote looks obvious and we've all said our peace.

Funny that we all say we are for the new palyers.

While management has not made a descision, the supporters are arguing with the p.shops and p.shops are stating why they do what they do. What is getting done here?

Well, I asked for the topic to be discussed productively and here's what I got:

1. Tresor thinks it's about Aerygon.
REPLY: I can't speak for others, but from my point of view it is about everything that's going on in hanyang and the disruption it has caused.

2. Tresor and Aerygon are upset that people protested against them.
REPLY: The protests and how it looks to new players is just as much a reason for this referendum as the many pshops in Hanyang are..

3. SPG dislikes the response he got from Tresor and company during the protest in Hanyang..
REPLY: Again, one of the many reasons for this proposal.

4. Roca and SPG disagree with how Tresor handled a situation with Xi'an townies.
REPLY: SUPER Offtopic and I already warned people to stop talking about this because it takes away from the topic at hand which is truly important.

5. I asked for productive feedback..
REPLY: I got it for one page, only, and this is why the referendum came up in the first place, because you all are unable to solve this issue amongst yourselves, like adults.

6. Bingo is fun, especially when cake is served.
REPLY: See how silly one can look when he/she goes off topic..
stupid

None of the above has anything to do with the topic at hand!

Conclusion: The vote is overwhelming and the desire to see Hanyang Square made a "PShop and Ad Free Zone" is certainly there. Amongst the arguing and personal issues, you have with one another, you guys/gals did manage to squeeze a few valid points of interest into this discussion. I will deliberate and make a decision soon. As for all of you turning this into a petty argument, I hope the same "new players" we are trying to protect didn't read this entire topic.

Wilton..

I say ban them, then can respect authority.

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