PShops and Advertisement in Hanyang City Square Good or Bad? <-Important VOTE!

PLEASE READ this entire post before voting, as it outlines the reasons for this poll and affects you, as a member of Zeus Server!

The following poll is for the common good of the game. First, let me be clear on something. I'm not here to be anyone's friend or buddy when it comes to doing my job as Kirin. I'm here to keep order and peace within the game. I don't expect everyone to agree with the choices I make, but rest assured, I will make all my decisions based on what's best for everyone.

Now that that's out of the way, Let me explain to you my point of view on the situation in Hanyang. I've spent the day listening to all sides and all opinions on the matter. The basis of the issue is Pshops purchasing items at too low a price, thus, hurting young/new players who may sell their items, to said PShops, at a price that is far lower than they deserve.

This has caused several people to hold up Advertisements in Hanyang stating their distaste concerning the matter. The right to protest is certainly a justifiable right, in my eyes. I endured many protests when I was GoonZu and always looked at it as the people's right to speak their minds. However, there comes a time when protest incites riotous reactions. When Protests push those involved in a direction that is not only non-productive, but a disruption to, even, unconcerned parties. In my opinion, this is what's transpiring in Hanyang, as I write this.

This has led me to debate the issue with the following points:

1. If we want to ridicule someone for purchasing items through a PShop at sub par prices, do we also condemn those selling at prices too high?
2. In turn, where do we draw the line on what's fair and what isn't?
3. Do I have a right to decide where the line is drawn, do the owners of the PShops have the right to decide or do the protestors who disagree with the, proposed, unfair treatment of new players decide?

The answer, in time, became clear to me. NO ONE, but the GMs have a right to decide where the line is drawn. Censorship can be a dangerous thing. If we can justify censoring one thing, we have to start to consider censoring other freedoms and game rights.

In a slight contradiction to my previous paragraph, I do believe a solution that is for the "good of the game" is available. I believe the young/new players that join our community need to see the very BEST the game has to offer as their first impression of Luminary, and with Hanyang being that sacred location where that first impression is obtained, I feel it is my job to insure that impression isn't tainted in any way. It's what's best for the server, for the growth of the game and for the overall order of things!

The results of this poll won't necessarilly decide my actions on this matter, but will have a great deal to do with how I go about it, as the people of Zeus's ideas, thoughts and well being is all that matters to me, here.

Please take the time to think of this from every angle possible and choose what you think is best for new players, old players and the server in general.

This poll will last 2 days only, so vote and tell your friends to vote! People logging with characters who's in game name I can't dicipher, will have their votes discounted, so if you vote with a username, that isn't your in game name, please reply to this stating your in game name, so I know to count your vote! You don't need to say anything in your reply, just your in game name.

Also, feel free to comment on this topic with replies. I implore you, do it constructively, this is a chance to truely speak on how you feel, not to take cheap shots at one another, if this happens, your post will be removed and your vote discounted.

*Proposal*
PShops and Advertisments will no longer be allowed in the confines of Hanyang Square. Hanyang Square is defined as the area where Hanyang's NPC's dwell and new players obtain their quests. I am putting forth this resolution because there is no clear way to dicipher what is fair, or isn't, in regards to PShops and Advertisements in Hanyang Square. Unless there are advertisements that contain slanderous statements and/or lewd remarks, to name a few, they are allowed, by definition, in game. This Prosposal is to create an environment that is best suited for new players and to provide them with the best possible first impression of Luminary and, above all, Zeus Server. It is not being made to violate anyone's rights or to uphold anyone's preconceived ideas of what is right or wrong, in terms of PShop prices and/or active protests!

Articles of Implementation:
A. Violators will be warned and teleported outside of the confines of Hanyang.
B. If, after being warned, The individual continues to violate said law, he/she will be jailed for 5 minutes and, once again, warned.
C. If said individual continues to violate this law, despite two prior warnings, he/she will be jailed for 30 minutes for each additional violation.

Thanks for your time and help in this matter!

Wilton..

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2008-04-06

Yes, I think Pshops and Ads should be removed because what new players should be looking first are the NPC's and not pshops and ads. The new players will just be confused and might be tricked because of scammed sites.

i vote yes

ign: puTangIna

i agree on that..besides..who wouldnt be annoyed by lots of scammers outside hanyang?...^^

weeee...lets clean up hanyang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wink

i agree... new players need to see what to do and not what to sell right away... the basics of the game are most important cuz it'll keep the newer players interested...

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-05-04

I voted yes.
I didn't really have to think about it.
Hanyang is the First Spot for New Players.
IMHO....
They NEED to be able to focus on the semantics of the game, how
the Questing system works, and to be honest, with all the advertising
going on, I am glad I am not a new player because I would find all that
clutter very confusing and distracting.

Couple all the confusing advertisements with the corrupted players
that don't care who they rip off, it's amazing that the newer players can
sift through the rubble of rabble...

Number of posts : 1 Registration date : 2008-05-06

I vote yes

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-03-24

Edited by tresor no one else

Last edited by Wilton on Wed May 07, 2008 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total

Now, let's continue this discussion, Tresor obviously disagrees with it, who else does or doesn't? Question

Wilton..

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-03-24

Edited and removed by Tresor

Number of posts : 1 Registration date : 2008-05-07

Sounds like a pretty good idea. There are plenty of places to set up a p.shop and keeping them away from Hanyang will help keep newer players from getting victimized. I don't see this as detracting from the spirit of the game. Unless the spirit of the game is ripping off people who don't know any better.

Number of posts : 8 Registration date : 2008-03-24

Fullgrim, New people are still going to buy from pshops whether they are in Hanyang or outside of Hanyang, I say no because this is a change to the spirit of the game as it is,. Changing the ambiance, style, aura about the game is wrong.

Ask yourself what is the purpose of this? If its to stop cheap pshops then this wont work as people will still buy and sell to pshops regardless of where they are. And then what? Ban pshops? This is a game of trading - buying - selling - and so on. If the developers didnt want pshops in hanyang they would of made it so. To use another example. If Mufight doesnt want Pshops in his town at all does that mean he has the right to ask they be removed by the kirin?

Why not ask all the pshops to only be in a town not open yet? Segregrate them all there, One big pshop market. What fun that will be to police..right now its not player vs pshop, its pshop vs pshop.

We cannot hold everyones hand, part of the fun about a game is discovering your riches for yourself, learning and learning from your mistakes.

Just wondering when will it end? When will the fun be brought back and people allowed to act and behave freely within the rules of the game?

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2008-03-23

Fulgrim wrote:: Sounds like a pretty good idea. There are plenty of places to set up a p.shop and keeping them away from Hanyang will help keep newer players from getting victimized. I don't see this as detracting from the spirit of the game. Unless the spirit of the game is ripping off people who don't know any better.

QFT

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2008-04-06

Ok ok maybe this proposal should be rethought Wilton, like PShops should be allowed in Hanyang because I think Tresor is right about killing the game if PShops are removed. PShops have been in HY for a long long time and I'm guessing that people dont have a problem with it. What I said first was wrong and I didn't really think about it fully. My vote still says yes but on advertisement, not on PShops.

The main problem in Hanyang is the advertisments. Now that is an issue to many players and can have a problem towards young players because they will probably visit the site and get scammed. Those are the people that need to be removed from Hanyang not the PShops. But I'm just voicing my thoughts on the proposal. I could be right I could be wrong.

JobeII

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2008-03-23

JobeII wrote:: Ok ok maybe this proposal should be rethought Wilton, like PShops should be allowed in Hanyang because I think Tresor is right about killing the game if PShops are removed. PShops have been in HY for a long long time and I'm guessing that people dont have a problem with it. What I said first was wrong and I didn't really think about it fully. My vote still says yes but on advertisement, not on PShops.

The main problem in Hanyang is the advertisments. Now that is an issue to many players and can have a problem towards young players because they will probably visit the site and get scammed. Those are the people that need to be removed from Hanyang not the PShops. But I'm just voicing my thoughts on the proposal. I could be right I could be wrong.

JobeII

So Jobe, That being said.. it's Ok to rip off the newest players who need good prices the most to buy equips etc....

But it's not ok to warn these new players of the dangers of being ripped off?

All thats being proposed is a fair clean enviroment for our new players to learn the game without being swamped of faux good deals from older players who should know better.

even if we got rid of the pshoppers in hanyang it wouldn't make that
much of a difference... they would set up right outside hanyang, and
where is the first place all new players go in there Sarah quest? right
outside... so instead of getting pshops in small dosages inside and
out, they are hit dramatically by a ton of phops right outside and will
not be able to find where they are going... i recall my first time
playing, i had no idea where the crap i was going... rather we should
focus on people helping others in hanyang and around... i do like how
some people sit around hanyang with the ads with warnings... we should
have helpers in those areas for people that have questions... and i do
know that is what the GA's are for... but i rarely see them around
hanyang helping out... yes they do help if someone in gen chat asks,
but shoot... most nice players will answer questions that people have...

Tresor wrote:: Fullgrim, New people are still going to buy from pshops
whether they are in Hanyang or outside of Hanyang, I say no because
this is a change to the spirit of the game as it is,. Changing the
ambiance, style, aura about the game is wrong.

i do not believe that the spirit of the game is to ward off new players and intentionally mess them over in buying materials for way less than their current worth... the spirit of the game, as me and a friend discussed tonite, is to have a good time and get away from the strains of the real world... we're not here to stress ourselves and each other out... we're here to kick back and attack Count Dracula with bamboo swords with no armor on... but we're here to readily enjoy ourselves and lend a helping hand to people when they need it... not royally mess them over...

Tresor wrote:: This idea reminds me of Koxxxxxxxs reign to recall people for their own benefit or designs. I have played this game for a long time and Pshops have always been in Hanyang - Do not change the fundemental game as it is. If you do this Wilton, I hope you get removed as Kirin for violating the rules of recall. One player should not be able to tell another player who is playing within the rules what to do. Also THIS FORUM IS NOT REPRESENTED fairly as it is largely comprised by your supporters Wilton. It does not represent GoonZu players as a whole.

this forum may have a lot of people who support Wilton, but they're not all his friends or really like him as a person... perhaps it does represent the goonzu players as a whole? i mean no disrespect Tresor... but you seem to just tear at everything that Wilton says... i bet you would be opposed to him saying that you should get an xtra 4leaf or two becuz you're awesome! i will say after looking through the people posting to become GA's and Judges here that not everyone is friend of Wilton i bet... they may not like him but some of the big issues they can readily agree with him on...

JobeII wrote:: I'm just voicing my thoughts on the proposal. I could be right I could be wrong.

JobeII

Your opinion is what I'm seeking, so you can't be wrong in having one. Thanks, Jobe! Cheers

Wilton..

Number of posts : 2 Registration date : 2008-03-26

I vote yes.

The very first time i played, hy was packed.. i thought to myself "this place is crazy!!!" lol was kinda overwhelming.
But then you step outside to even more mayhem.. as for my first few trips across the bridge Shocked

It would be nice to be able to cull the number of shops allowed in the area.

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2008-04-06

Rocafella wrote:

JobeII wrote:: Ok ok maybe this proposal should be rethought Wilton, like PShops should be allowed in Hanyang because I think Tresor is right about killing the game if PShops are removed. PShops have been in HY for a long long time and I'm guessing that people dont have a problem with it. What I said first was wrong and I didn't really think about it fully. My vote still says yes but on advertisement, not on PShops.

The main problem in Hanyang is the advertisments. Now that is an issue to many players and can have a problem towards young players because they will probably visit the site and get scammed. Those are the people that need to be removed from Hanyang not the PShops. But I'm just voicing my thoughts on the proposal. I could be right I could be wrong.

JobeII

So Jobe, That being said.. it's Ok to rip off the newest players who need good prices the most to buy equips etc....

But it's not ok to warn these new players of the dangers of being ripped off?

All thats being proposed is a fair clean enviroment for our new players to learn the game without being swamped of faux good deals from older players who should know better.

PShops are a part of the game right? And I feel that there could be a chance that new players can get ripped off. Yes, I want advertisments removed but PShops, there a part of the game. Basically its common sense and I think new players can tell whether its a good deal or not.

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2008-04-06

Squirrly wrote:: even if we got rid of the pshoppers in hanyang it wouldn't make that
much of a difference... they would set up right outside hanyang, and
where is the first place all new players go in there Sarah quest? right
outside... so instead of getting pshops in small dosages inside and
out, they are hit dramatically by a ton of phops right outside and will
not be able to find where they are going... i recall my first time
playing, i had no idea where the crap i was going... rather we should
focus on people helping others in hanyang and around... i do like how
some people sit around hanyang with the ads with warnings... we should
have helpers in those areas for people that have questions... and i do
know that is what the GA's are for... but i rarely see them around
hanyang helping out... yes they do help if someone in gen chat asks,
but shoot... most nice players will answer questions that people have...

Thats a good point. It wouldn't really matter where the PShops go because new players go outside of HY and have a chance of getting bad deals there.

i have a question..>> how far should pshops stay away from hANyang (or the concerned area)? i mean will it be very very far from hanyang or not..?=D

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2008-04-06

flaie wrote:: i have a question..>> how far should pshops stay away from hANyang (or the concerned area)? i mean will it be very very far from hanyang or not..?=D

The proposal says no PShops and Advertisment in Hanyang. So only inside of HY only.

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2008-03-23

JobeII wrote:

Rocafella wrote:

JobeII wrote:: Ok ok maybe this proposal should be rethought Wilton, like PShops should be allowed in Hanyang because I think Tresor is right about killing the game if PShops are removed. PShops have been in HY for a long long time and I'm guessing that people dont have a problem with it. What I said first was wrong and I didn't really think about it fully. My vote still says yes but on advertisement, not on PShops.

The main problem in Hanyang is the advertisments. Now that is an issue to many players and can have a problem towards young players because they will probably visit the site and get scammed. Those are the people that need to be removed from Hanyang not the PShops. But I'm just voicing my thoughts on the proposal. I could be right I could be wrong.

JobeII

So Jobe, That being said.. it's Ok to rip off the newest players who need good prices the most to buy equips etc....

But it's not ok to warn these new players of the dangers of being ripped off?

All thats being proposed is a fair clean enviroment for our new players to learn the game without being swamped of faux good deals from older players who should know better.

PShops are a part of the game right? And I feel that there could be a chance that new players can get ripped off. Yes, I want advertisments removed but PShops, there a part of the game. Basically its common sense and I think new players can tell whether its a good deal or not.

I see your point jobe, but Advertisements are apart of the game too... if people are allowed to rip others off other new players

Why can't people advertise this as WRONG? and inform new players on how to make better deals

PShops have always confused me. Especially seeing that there is a market in every town, that most players have alts so there is not a high need for multiple market sales slots over 4 per character. This leaves me to reason that PShops only true intention for the buying aspect would be to buy for very low. Be it the mats/items bought are used or resold for higher profit (the later I think happens 85% or more of the time) this brings us to a interesting subject. If someone wanted to buy materials, they can buy it on the market in any town. If someone wanted to sell a material, they can in any market in any town provided they have the space in their market inventory selling slots.

I think part of the truth is people who have played for a long time realize this and do not sell charcoal to pshops in return of 10k marbles, cotton for 5k, etc so on and so forth... The only person this leaves is the new player with not much of an option but to sell the simple quantity of materials they hunted to the drastically low pshop buying prices. They can list it on market like anyone else, but the first thing they see is a pshop when they start. First impressions leave a lasting mark.

So where does this leave us, we see players which are buying in such masses they are rich. There is no denying that statement when you start doing the math and the simple alts with a pshop up are holding a good few million in marbles.

As for the spirit of the game or what this would be ruining in any way I don not understand. Seems a stretch to say that recalling them outside of Hanyang when they I assume will be told kindly to please move outside a few times is just a simple rule being enforced.

Some things which I see and would like others to at the minimum recognize is that when someone has power or control in a situation, using the power or control which was given does not bring miss use. I see many people have problems with what Town Chiefs do, heads, ministers, goonzu, and the like. I have very very very rarely seen anyone go overboard with the control they were given in this game. In addition to this pointing fingers... When Wilton who is Kirin is asking opinions on this matter, in contrast to just jailing the pshops without warning or reason, which he can do yet flexes restraint and maturity by asking the players widely what the consensus is... Don't go knocking on doors you don't want opened.

Thank you for requesting a vote/discussion on this Wilton instead of just smiting who you'd like.

I say yes on this vote. Don't like that you can't pshop in Hanyang, boo hoo. Open it outside.

Never needed but someones 2 cents are worth just that...
If you guys do not like something then help come up with solutions.
Saying no all the time and trying to veto things does not help anyone if there is not constructive or compromised solutions following.

OK I have stated since the start of my time on with this World to now, Pshops have no business inside of Hanyang if people remember they had to put a fence around the NPC’s to keep the Pshops from blocking them and it is so hard even now to even navigate inside of Hanyang with all the Pshops filling the areas. If the prices were anywhere close to the market price Pshops would be a good deal for the new players but the prices they offer are far from fair. New people to our World have not the knowledge or the savvy I believe to understand that Pshops are not their best bet. Let the Pshops have all the outside area they want but let the NPC’s and the GAs and the new and old people of our World have the inside area for a retreat, a learning area or as a meeting area free of being hassled by these shops. I most say a definate YES to no Pshops inside of Hanyang. IGN Haney

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